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Florence
Mature Oak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 430
Location: Northumberland
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Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 4:42 pm Post subject: A green household in the recession?
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Of course! It's all a matter of careful budgeting isn't it?
And I've discovered that I'm not running outside the green credentials that I've grown up with.
The allotment is 75% organic, the compost heaps are rotting down nicely, the seeds are bought in sales, on special offer, gluts are frozen down for future use.
The house is still under a green cleaning regime because it's more cost effective than chemicals.
The store cupboard is refilled from special offers or the discount shelf of the supermarket. Nothing is wasted food wise. Clothes are bought to last and nothing is bought that is unnecessary. Mending is done regularly as needed.
Cooking is one pot, by the oven full, excess goes in the freezer. And the utility bills are down considerably.
Going out is much more using the bus pass, down the library, doing a couple of mornings volunteering. going places by foot.
Landfill waste is minimal, plastic carriers reused when acquired (yes there is a place for them bringing stuff back from the allotment as they wash till they fall apart).
In other words, just how I was bought up to be in an environmentally friendly household.
Why should life be less green because of lack of money? What's the recession got to do with it?
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Badger
Moderator / Ancient Yew
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 2230
Location: Lovely rural Nova Scotia - Canada
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Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:01 pm Post subject:
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I don't think that the recession (or economic downturn as our government is fond of calling it), has affected us at all - we still live the same quality of life that we settled on when we moved here - still poor, still growing stuff, making do, mending and being frugal with what we have.
No debt you see, it works wonders on your mental health in times of prosperity or not...
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Today, I am mostly saying: Apathetic bloody planet, I've no sympathy at all.!
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Florence
Mature Oak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 430
Location: Northumberland
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Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:32 pm Post subject:
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Funny but being poor makes being green easier methinks.
Unless you have enough cash to build a fully green, environmentally friendly home and go the full green thing.
Two extremes.
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pennyet
Ancient Yew
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Posts: 585
Location: St Albans
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Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:27 pm Post subject:
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I think that actually the credit crunch (which still sounds like an ice cream flavour to me ) is making more people "green" without them actually realising it. A lack of money is causing some people to stretch what they have a bit further rather than buying new or wasting things.
The interesting question to me will be what happens when (or if depending which paper you read) the economic situation picks up. Will people revert back to the life they used to lead, or will they continue?
One thing that did actually annoy me a bit with the last INEBG series for instance was that it seemed to mainly concentrate on all the green things that you could do if you had a lot of money. Admittedly series 1 was more based on starting from scratch, but I wonder if now would be a good time to either re-run the first series, or something similar, showing how people may now be being green without realising it, and showing others what they could do to save money and be green at the same time.
Personally I don't think it's made that much difference to us as Mr C and I were making changes beforehand anyway. The only difference may be that I've managed to "convert" more people once they've realised the money saving side of it as well.
Sorry for waffling on...
Mrs C
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greentwinsmummy
Moderator / Ancient Yew
Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 8897
Location: a hamlet in a hollow
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Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 7:33 pm Post subject:
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I agree there are 2 extremes,if you have lots of cash,there is ever growing technology & products to make a home very efficient now,if you dont then the very fact that being a consumer whether its of energy or goods~costs money~means less money means less of those.
I worry less money means folks rather than making it go further or going without will buy intensive farmed meat.
Yet if it means fewer folks are going to topshop & primark every week to buy *a new top to go out in* then thats a good thing
We are buying far less luxury items now,we used to buy G&B or fairtrade chocolate,wine etc,theres no cash for things like that now.
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kaffleck
Established Chestnut
Joined: 01 Nov 2008
Posts: 195
Location: Co. Wexford, Ireland
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Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:18 pm Post subject:
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I'm afraid I looked at buying fairtrade coffee today and went for a cheaper option. And the majority of my food shopping is being bought in a well known german chain that sells 'Irish Chickens' farmed and processed in the UK, and other stuff coming from much further afield. I need to really crack on and increase the yield from my garden as I don't want to be buying long distance travelling goods (and maybe give up coffee!) but can't afford the locally produced stuff right now.
I am very proud of a friend of mine though who has wanted for nothing all her life, and has managed to slash her electricity bill dramatically and is looking at other changes she can make. We now have a bartering system going on too with plants, unwanted crockery, home baked stuff etc. And I've a couple of other friends coming on board now For me, I'm generally frugal just even more so now. For them it's all new.
Mrs C I agree with you that it will be interesting to see what will happen once there's an upturn. Unfortunately I think most will just returning to spending as before.
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Florence
Mature Oak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 430
Location: Northumberland
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Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:06 pm Post subject:
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Is fair trade coffee production green and environmentally friendly? Fair Trade means that the producers receive more of the price for their product. It doesn't reflect whether or not the practices involved in growing the coffee is environmentally friendly. The same can be said for tea and cocoa production.
Two different things fair trade and environmentally friendly (organic) food growing practices. Now it certainly costs more in man hours to produce organic food even if less in chemical costs.
You are right to say that if you want organic fruit and vegetables then you should go down the route of growing your own. Mind you, the hard labour and no chemical weed killers will soon teach you why the organic produce costs more in the shops.
I hope you don't mind me being a peasant or pedant or something and picking up on this.
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kaffleck
Established Chestnut
Joined: 01 Nov 2008
Posts: 195
Location: Co. Wexford, Ireland
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Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:16 pm Post subject:
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Florence it's a very good point and one easily confused. More ethical doesn't necessarily mean more environmentally friendly. Short and sweet post - drawing pics for dd2!
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kaffleck
Established Chestnut
Joined: 01 Nov 2008
Posts: 195
Location: Co. Wexford, Ireland
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:27 am Post subject:
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| Florence wrote: |
Two different things fair trade and environmentally friendly (organic) food growing practices. Now it certainly costs more in man hours to produce organic food even if less in chemical costs.
You are right to say that if you want organic fruit and vegetables then you should go down the route of growing your own. Mind you, the hard labour and no chemical weed killers will soon teach you why the organic produce costs more in the shops. |
Just wanted to come back to this again now that DD2 is in bed else I won't be able to sleep. I totally understand the reasoning behind why organic food costs more but paying 4 per head of broccolli at my local farmers market (and I can't even remember if that particular broccolli was organic as it was a couple of years ago) just doesn't do it for me. I want to support local farmers but right now I'm struggling to support my own family. It was what spurred me on to start growing my own in the first place.
Last week was a good lesson in what this was all about. When I had a car on the road I had no cash for food so we ate from the garden. Then I had the cash but no car cos it had broken down (no local transport here) so ate from the garden again! How great it felt to be able to do that! And the potatoes were the best!
ETA- In fact I could have left the coffee yesterday altogether (since it's a luxury and the kids don't eat it) and the change still wouldn't have paid for the head of locally grown broccolli! How crazy is that considering how far it's come, packaging, processing, marketing etc?
One thing I am noticing is how many more 'wanted' posts there are on freecycle now as opposed to 'offered'.
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danksshady
Ancient Yew
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
Posts: 578
Location: Walsall West Midlands
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:17 am Post subject:
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we have noticed that here too - loads of wanted posts on freecycle and far less offered
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mum to 6 - trying to be greener in our own way
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columbusrat
Admin / Ancient Yew
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 13339
Location: Broadstone, Dorset
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:27 pm Post subject:
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There will be plenty who move away from organic free range foods to the cheaper options, and also from environmentally friendly cleaners like Ecover to shops' own brands (rather than progressing to vinegar, bicarb etc.). However, I'm hoping that this will be more than offset by them making more effort to avoid waste and unnecessary purchases. Reducing days out and holidays would make large reductions in their carbon footprints too.
It would be interesting to know if supermarkets have seen a downturn in spending, though you'd have to consider whether this is because people are buying less food in general or just buying cheaper food. Does anyone know if such figures are available?
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Studentmum
Established Chestnut
Joined: 22 May 2008
Posts: 145
Location: Dumfries and Galloway
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:31 pm Post subject:
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Seems that supermarkets are managing to make record profits
www.guardian.co.uk/.../2009/.../tesco-supermarket-profits-record
wonder if shopping habits have really changed that much... (some profit will presumably be from other sources than food sales)
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Badger
Moderator / Ancient Yew
Joined: 29 Jan 2007
Posts: 2230
Location: Lovely rural Nova Scotia - Canada
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:54 pm Post subject:
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we've actually seen food prices go up over here
a common complaint and very noticeable, as most folk here shop to a strict budget and have seen the amount of produce they can buy drop considerably.
As a wise man once said - everyone is working, but no-ones making money..
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Florence
Mature Oak
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
Posts: 430
Location: Northumberland
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:07 pm Post subject:
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| columbusrat wrote: |
There will be plenty who move away from organic free range foods to the cheaper options, and also from environmentally friendly cleaners like Ecover to shops' own brands (rather than progressing to vinegar, bicarb etc.).
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I think that a lot of people have no idea what vinegar, soda bicarb and washing soda can be used for - there are so many grannies who have not passed the information down through the family. Saying that I buy Faith in Nature in bulk for some things and find that it's just as cost effective in the long run.
But it's the old thing about buying cheap doesn't always work. Two bath foams for £1 from Poundland are often so much more water and so much less bubble that the savings are wiped out by needing 4 bottles instead of 1 for 98p of supermarket own brand. But hey ho, who am I to teach people the simple maths of things.
| columbusrat wrote: |
It would be interesting to know if supermarkets have seen a downturn in spending, though you'd have to consider whether this is because people are buying less food in general or just buying cheaper food. Does anyone know if such figures are available?
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It looks as if people are buying cheaper foods and less organic foods and I think that it's fairly well accepted that more people are visiting Aldi and Lidl.
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columbusrat
Admin / Ancient Yew
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 13339
Location: Broadstone, Dorset
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Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:45 pm Post subject:
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I'm disappointed that it can be hard to buy items like white vinegar and bicarb in bulk (mind you, I'm trying to make do with the shops in walking distance at the moment). I guess they simply don't have the profit margins that specialised products have.
Mind you, I economise on cleaning products by not cleaning very much
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