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rue_d_etropal
Ancient Yew
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 816
Location: Accrington, Lancashire
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:10 am Post subject: Conspiracy theory stopping real change?
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It's difficult enough convincing total strangers that Climate Change is a problem that has to be fixed but when a friend claims that it is just a Conspiracy Theory to justify tax increases then I start to think, should I just concentrate on saving my own family and those who understand the problem.
I have hope in the Transition Movement as long as it manages to reach those outside the environmental circle.
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Billy Rhomboid
Moderator / Ancient Yew
Joined: 17 May 2006
Posts: 13671
Location: The Isle of Avalon
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:21 am Post subject:
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Perhaps just edit your friends.
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nick
Admin
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 5868
Location: Sth. London / Surrey
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Conspiracy theory stopping real change?
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| rue_d_etropal wrote: |
..... as long as it manages to reach those outside the environmental circle. |
That's the really important thing, isn't it.
We all have to work at spreading the message wider. Too many just spend the time talking to each other and wondering why others don't mysteriously see the light.
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Mike&Penny
Ancient Yew
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 3019
Location: Berkshire Mtns (Massachusetts USA)
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:27 pm Post subject: Except that it realy isn't funny
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Except that it isn't really funny this is where we could be ROFLOL and crying at the same time. Ain't seen nothing yet. Wait till there is really pain from the ecological breakdown and then it will all be put to the fault of the Jews, or the Blacks, or the Roma --- just substite for each society who are the usual ones who get blamed.
Sorry if that's such a sad, cynical view of my species, but it does seem to be the way we work.
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ilan
Ancient Yew
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 797
Location: Bromley kent
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:20 pm Post subject:
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Now strangly I think more people are getting the message not only of the climate change issues but also of the whole issue of sustainability There has been a steady drip of infomation from the media and most sensible people are able to link the major forest fires in europe this summer and the serious flooding in manilla ect of recent days . The big problem is what to do about it the politicians are scared to adopt un popular policies , there is no money available for the massive investments needed to migate it effects or to start the processes needed to sustainable living
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rue_d_etropal
Ancient Yew
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 816
Location: Accrington, Lancashire
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Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:36 pm Post subject:
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But I suspect the politicians and bureaucrats will make sure they are OK when it all starts to go wrong.
I have just visited a local permaculture centre, Offshoots in Burnley, and it was amazing, yet I only heard about it recently.
I definitely recommend this place if you are near, but try and arrange a group visit so you can be shown round properly. I raised the question of getting the permaculture message to local Asian population, and this has been difficult. They did have a small local waste food pickup scheme, which worked well and also tempted some of the Asian population to visit the centre, but then the bureaucrats decided to award the whole waste collection system to a large American mining company(controversal ) and the small local project which was positively engaging a part of the community otherwise ignored, was not allowed to continue.
When will the authorities stop trying to do everything themselves, and encourage local groups to take charge. The money will start to run out soon for these authorities, and it will be essential for local people to take over some services.
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Chrisf
Elm Sapling
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 56
Location: Aberdeenshire
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 11:42 am Post subject:
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I'll have to side with Bill Hicks on this one. The mob (my recently adopted term for most of society) is kept passive because they get what they want. Banal entertainment channels pump the latest reality tv show into our homes (for Bill it was Gladiators) which people watch and seem to relate to. Then they can go to their work or their school and discuss who was ejected from the latest x factor or whichever show is running. Then between programmes they are bombarded by images of the latest 'thing' that they should buy to make them younger/thinner/more popular/better looking (delete as appropriate).
I have to say I have had real concerns regarding what is likely to be happening in the future. We seem destined to blindly walk over the precipice of our own downfall. Politicians are pinning there hopes on technological solutions to the symptoms while still insisting that must have economic growth to survive in the current market. The current market wont mean a damn when we can't feed ourselves.
Oops, I can feel myself going into rant mode, better stop before I get too carried away!
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Mike&Penny
Ancient Yew
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 3019
Location: Berkshire Mtns (Massachusetts USA)
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 2:48 pm Post subject: the dpeth of the problem
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| Chrisf wrote: |
| I have to say I have had real concerns regarding what is likely to be happening in the future. We seem destined to blindly walk over the precipice of our own downfall. Politicians are pinning there hopes on technological solutions to the symptoms while still insisting that must have economic growth to survive in the current market. The current market wont mean a damn when we can't feed ourselves. |
That's the crux of the problem and they have no choice!
It's a pretty dim hope, bad percentage bet, that a technological rabbit can be popped from the hat but that's the only hope there is for politicians who are now trying to run things.
At the present time there is only miniscule support for sacrificing now so that we can (at least some of us) survive the coming collapse and arrive on the other side in sustainable balance. There is no basis of consent for such measures so a waste of time for a politician to suggest them -- would simply immediately cease to be a politician.
If you don't believe that try a poll here (on this list) measuring support for several different "packages" of measures which are proposed as "solutions" to the crisis with peple to select which they thought sufficient and /or necessary. I'm afraid that even here with a population on this list of people who are all at least aware of the seriousness of the situation we would not find majority support for a package extreme enough to have a chance of being sufficient to avert disaster.
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There is no possibility of social justice on a dead planet except the equality of the grave.
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ilan
Ancient Yew
Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 797
Location: Bromley kent
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Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:00 pm Post subject:
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In many respects I agree , what I think will also happen is as normal we in the west will try and exploite the poor and vunerable of africa etc . I was suprised to listen to a plan to put a massive investment into some of these regions to produce solar power and bring it to europe thro a super grid ! but of course there was no mention of putting in a grid to bring the supply to some of the local villages . The other problem is that climate change does not follow a linear line so we seem to be in a period of relative stable temperatures so that there is tendancy to miss the urgency of the situation .The scary thing will be if we see a major rapid change as could well happen . Another big problem will be the lack of ability of any goverment to give the investment needed
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